What if….Let’s be – Honest and Civil….
What if? We all ask ourselves that question when an act of cowardice and terror is forced on us. In Paris Friday night well over a hundred people were killed as a direct result of acts of terror. I’m so sad to say many more will die as many were critically injured as well! What would you have done if you had been in the audience at the rock concert when three terrorist opened fire on the crowd, shooting them at will, having time to reload and then, shoot more!!!! if you had been like the people there you would have gone to the floor and prayed you would not be shot, there was nothing else they could do.
I don’t want to be controversial but I have an idea, and I want you to give it careful thought and please respond, this is one topic that deserves plenty of input! What if someone or several someones in the audience has happened to be armed with concealed guns. Is it possible that they might have taken out the terrorists before dozens more had to die?
Let’s face it;
1. Terrorist are cowards, almost every shooting has been in a place where the coward with the gun knew he would not be shot in the middle of this terrorist act. The man that went into the movie theatre knew it was a “GUN FREE” Zone., The school shootings, gun free zones, the rock concert in Paris, I’m sure was a place where guns were not allowed, but the terrorist had them, semi automatic rifles with extended magazines and they went to the balcony and shot down on the crowd at will.
2. There are not enough police and military to station them at every place crowds of people are present, and even if there were, the tactical dress would keep the terrorist away! Why go to war when you can be a cowardice murderer, free of fear of anyone shooting back?!
3. But what if there were deterrents to these acts???
Here is my suggestion and you can tell me why it won’t work.
I have a legal Kentucky Concealed Carry permit and often carry a concealed weapon when I’m going to places that might invite these kinds of attacks. If I had been in the audience on Friday night, I believe I could have taken cover and returned fire on the terrorist on the balcony. At the distances involved, I’m convinced that with a 17 shots ( I carry a very accurate CZ 75 semi automatic pistol), I could have taken out one or more shooters, or at least distracted them from shooting unarmed people long enough for law enforcement to breach the room. The bottom line, some lives could have been saved.
Here is my plan. If you want to be someone that wants to help protect the public you apply for training and vetting as an armed civiilan. You must have a thorough back ground check, and be trained on the critical skills needed to react in these kinds of situations. If you were allowed to have a gun with a suppressor (silencer), you could get off more shots without being detected, increasing the chance of your success against the attackers.
I know this will be highly controversial, but just think, if you were in a public building and terrorists were shooting people in the crowd, you were in, one at a time, until they ran out of ammunition, wouldn’t you pray someone was in that crowed that might stop the carnage?
How can I make this stand as a Christian? These people have declared war on the world, these cowards will not put on a uniform and go to war to fight for their cause. They instead kill the innocent, when they have no way to defend themselves. I think it is time we fight back, if they want war, we need to take it to them! Do I think everyone should strap on a gun? No, this is serious business, and the people we allow to take this role should be well prepared to do it as safely as possible, but the time to just wring our hands is over.
If you hate guns and think that guns are why we have these attacks, remember that many were killed by suicide bombs in Paris. These radicals would use axes and knives if they had no other choice. When will we say this has to stop???!!!
Give me your thoughts!
Blessings,
the pilgrim
This entry was posted on Sunday, November 15th, 2015 at 4:43 pm
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You offer one solution. As for me, I prefer the more difficult path. I choose to follow Jesus along the path he not only taught us to follow, but actually took himself.
It’s not easy to love our enemies. It’s not easy to return good for evil. It’s not easy to accept “vengeance is mine says the LORD.” But all other paths throughout history have only begotten more anger, hatred and violence.
So, I am trying as best I can to divert from the path of this world and crawl along behind Jesus. It’s hard. I often loose the path and react like those around me. But I keep trying.
I invite others to try something different, also. Don’t be defeated by terrorists by becoming like them. Be transformed by Jesus by becoming like him.
Leon, in my heartI know you are spot on, I just have such a hard time in that crawl. After watching reports of hundreds, maybe thousands of Christians beheaded, women and children, I don’t know my brother, I keep coming back to they declared war on us, I believe we can defend ourselves! But thanks for such a thought provoking response!
I can’t remember any where in the Bible that Christians are required to be victims. I don’t believe that we were put on this earth to be slaughtered. Self defense is not a sin.
Interesting discussion. First, even though I am for responsible gun control…in other words, keeping guns out of the hands of the crazy people…I do agree with Bill’s thoughts and in fact thought the same thing when I heard of the shootings….what if someone in that audience had been armed and could have taken out these terrorists.
As to the theological discussion…this is where it gets tough. Because indeed Jesus did seem to teach a sort of pacifism; he rebuked Peter when he cut off the soldier’s ear and told him that he who lives by the sword will die by the sword. Jesus said to turn the other cheek when hit, as a means of a witness. I know one pastor who preaches that Christians join the armies of compassion and work to change the world that way. Indeed this will be the only way that any evil is actually defeated.
Checking some stats it appears that over 10,000 Americans are murdered per year by guns. 10,000. One hundred times the number of people killed in Paris. Do you think this strategy is working well? Would elementary teachers with concealed pistols have helped at Sandy Hook?
The terrorist, on the other hand, could blow up the whole place and avoid pesky people with concealed weapons. Their goal is to create terror, what ever way works. If individual execution is to hard, then blow me up.
” If possible, so far as it depends on you, live peaceably with all.” Romans 12:18. I struggle to fit a concealed weapon into the verse. The pistol’s primary purpose in your strategy seems contrary.
I admit I don’t understand the American philosophy on guns.
The vast majority of those deaths is criminal on criminal, which sadly, we seem to always have with us. “If possible” that nay be the key phrase we are facing.
Actually, the majority of gun deaths in the US are indeed innocent victims. Data from the FBI: for every 1 justifiable homicide of a criminal, there are 34 criminal gun homicides, 78 gun suicides, and 2 accidental gun deaths. A large amount of gun deaths is due to incidents of domestic violence which escalate. Every day 7 children and teens die from gun violence.
So we do indeed have a problem in America and let’s face it…guns are what they are because they are the most efficient type of killing machine, far more efficient than knives, etc. If you take most shooting situations, take away the guns and replace them with knives, you have far less deaths.
Now I believe we can strike a balance; allow for responsible gun ownership, but make it more difficult for the crazy people to obtain guns. Let’s have good background checks, let’s close some of these loopholes where anyone can buy any gun at a gun show or via the internet. And let’s get rid of some of these military grade semiautomatic weapons on the open market.
I like Bill’s idea of the background checks and training in order to carry a firearm. I do think that a good compromise can be made that allows for responsible gun ownership but screens out the crazy people.
What are “good background checks” ?
Is a good background check one that catches 100% of data entry errors? It is a database driven by data in and data out and as we all know, a database is only as good as the data entered into the database.
What are “military grade semiautomatics” ?
I used to shoot a .222 rifle to hunt deer…. when I used to hunt.
You do realize the .222 caliber is almost the same as the .223.
The .222 is just a step above a .22 magnum which is not allowed to
be used to shoot deer in Texas any way, not sure about other states.
The military grade and assault rifle adjectives were coined by the anti gun and Liberal media to describe these guns in effort to make them appear to be worse than they are. They are just like
a car kit, one used to buy and install on the VW and Corvair chassis to make the look like they were
some fast exotic sports car when in fact they were just the same old slow car under that dress up skin. I wonder if the AR was just dressed in pretty wood if everyone would still refer to it as military grade? Nobocy ever refers to the 30.06 or 308 calibers as being assault rifles especially since both were once used as sniper rifles in previous wars but the again they were dressed up in pretty wood not black plastic.
It never has been the gun and never will be the gun….. it takes a person to aim and pull the trigger.
Bill, as you might imagine (based on our past discussions) I fully support your premise. And, I expect that you will be correct in your statement that this will be highly controversial. As a Christian it is a very difficult subject — to turn the other cheek and love our enemies even if they want to kill us or to defend our beliefs, our lives and our loved ones to the best of our ability.
I accept the fact that there will be many people that would not be comfortable, nor believe in, defending themselves and I don’t think they should be forced to do anything different.
However I believe that I have a responsibility to do everything I can to protect the lives of my “family” against those that would do us harm. I will not do anything to instigate a deadly situation with those that seek terror and want to harm me/us but once they take action to harm me/us then I will respond in kind. I don’t believe that God wants or expects anything less. And yes, i accept that others may think I am completely wrong on this but I am totally comfortable and at peace with my decision.
There are bad people in the world. And they want to do bad things to good people. I have had a concealed carry permit for 30 years and I actively carry wherever legal to do so. I do not carry to be macho or feel empowered, most people I encounter daily have no idea I am armed. I simply cannot imagine a worse feeling than to be caught in a situation like the ones in Paris and have to stand there completely helpless. I refuse to be a victim if I can defend myself.
God, guns, and guts made America free……I vote to keep all three
Don
I was brought up in a different time and in a different generation. I wish no harm to anyone, but I feel we cannot lie down before our enemies and offer ourselves up for slaughter. Keep in mind these people are doing this because their understanding of their faithisthat Christians are to be eradicated!
Mike, I certainly think you are right, we must be able find peace in the highly personal part of this decision!
Bill,
I completely agree with you! I have held a NC concealed carry permit for years, and have taken many weapons and defensive training courses. We live in troubling times, and you have to decide, will you be sheep dog, or a sheep. I chose to be the watch dog. I chose to protect my family, and those around me.
I’ll go one step farther. Every photographer is a potential target. Not necessarily by terrorists, but by thieves, drug addicts, and other desperate people. Our equipment is very expensive and easy to sell. I always encourage photographers of all genres, not to go out alone if at possible. There’s safety in numbers! If you must go out alone, prepare yourself mentally and physically for potential threats. I understand it’s a personal decision to carry a weapon of any kind. Ask yourself this question, ” if I was out with family or loved ones, and your family is threatened by thieves or terrorists, wouldn’t you rather have a fighting chance than becoming another victim?”
Danny Wilson
I am only suggesting what you’ve stated, I do not wish to hunt terrorist only protect the innocent from them!!!
I’m 100% behind this. I carry wherever legal, including church, movie theaters, etc. I am not out looking to be any kind of vigilante and hope the only place I ever fire a handgun is at the range. I avoid ‘gun free’ zones and do not frequent some businesses that have posted that. they have every right to their opinion, but I do believe that puts them first in line to be a victim. I feel called to protect my family and those around me if possible. Turning the other cheek does not apply in this case. You are not winning a terrorist to Christ by letting them kill you in a senseless attack. We don’t see CHL holders being the perpetrators of these attacks, and I will gladly be counted in those ranks.
I think maybe we missed something, In Luke 22:35-36. Jesus is getting ready to die on the cross for the sin of the world. He asked his apostles did you have everything you needed when I sent you out without purse or sword. He then turns around and says to them to take their purse and if they did not have a sword sell their garment and buy one. Jesus is looking forward to the rebellion of man against his kingdom. Satan hates Gods kingdom and his people. There is nothing he enjoys more than striking fear into the heart of man. There is nothing in my mind preventing man from defending himself. We are warned against being easily offended and to be peacemakers. We are not to be out trying to start a fight and we are to try to the best of our ability to stop a fight. Not to give up our country, our lives and Christian faith for the sake of being meek. God blessed his people in going into war many times in the old testament. He gave the land of some other peoples to the Jews. God expects us to follow him and if he impresses us to arm ourselves then by George I will strap mine to my side.
To make a point my wife and I were in Jackson Hole in 2013 and we walked down the street to get something to eat. On the way back I decided it would be faster to cut through the back street to get to the motel. Well I noticed that this car with 3 men in it was eyeing us and they were really paying too much attention to us. After watching their actions for a few minutes I really felt like they were planning something that was not good. So I looked straight at one of the guys that was looking at us and I put my hand in my jacket pocket like I was holding a pistol. They promptly left. I know that people that are considering evil take the path of least resistance just like water or electricity. I think we need to make them think. One reason the Japanese did not invade America was they said everybody in America owned a gun!
Sorry I got to typing and I probably went a little long.
Not at all, I appreciate your points!
Sounds reasonable to me. More people should have permits AND be permitted to carry in places where large groups of people gather. It’s a little pointless to have a concealed carry permit if you’re not allowed to carry where you might actually be able to make a big difference some day. The vast majority of Americans with firearms are good people and most of them just let their firearms collect dust in the closet, like me. We get a bad reputation being gun crazy, but the rest of world doesn’t understand it’s just a way of life/normal here to own a gun and most people here don’t even give it a second thought. Basically everyone I know owns a gun. None of us has gone out and shot up the neighborhood. Why? Because we’re peaceful, responsible citizens.
It seems the vast majority of our mass shootings here in the US are as a result of mentally unstable people taking anti-depressants. If you look at the details of the school shootings, you’ll find most of those guys were prescribed some sort of drug for mental conditions. I’m afraid we’ll be seeing more of the mass shootings by mentally unstable people in the future unless society gets its act together and stops raising their kids on the internet/TV/Xbox/PlayStation. Kids need their parent’s interaction and attention. A TV is not a good substitute for a parent. And we wonder why we have mentally unstable kids…
Social issues are big factor in our domestic violence, for sure!
Jon, as I said in my first post, I don’t understand the American gun culture. I should add that I don’t believe it to be wrong either. I do believe that there are other ways. I know of two hunters who own a rifle, a few farmers with shotguns, one friend with a sport pistol and one veteran who still owns weapons. There are likely a few more but certainly the ratio is pretty much the opposite of yours.
There will be a time when mass violence comes to my city. I don’t think I will change my opinion, but not impossible. Fifteen years ago I was doing a lot of flying on business, after 9/11 i took up martial arts and now have my 3rd degee black belt. So I am not completely opposed to fighting back but neither am I completely comfortable with it.
My reading for this morning just happens to be from 2 Corinthians 10:2-4
I beg you that when I come I may not have to be as bold as I expect to be toward some people who think that we live by the standards of this world. For though we live in the world, we do not wage war as the world does. The weapons we fight with are not the weapons of the world. On the contrary, they have divine power to demolish strongholds.
Maybe it is proper that you carry your pistol and I carry my Karate. But let us all arm ourselves first with fervrent prayer and meditation on His word.
Amen to that!!!!!
I’ve had a carry permit close to 10 years. At my age, nearing 70, I can’t run from a threat like I used to; and can’t stand and fight like I think I once could. But even at my age, I can defend myself in a life threatening situation. Recently, when the nut was executing people if they professed to being a christian, I’d like to think I would have drawn and fired back before he asked the 2nd person. I take the position that I not only have the basic right to defend myself and my family member, I have the responsibility. Come into my home uninvited, and at the wrong time and the wrong way, and I will take a defensive posture. Guess it’s my 21 years of military experience kicking in.
I occasionally do a “ride-along” with our sheriff’s department and I’ve had several discussions about this issue. Two deputies both take the position that it’s not a question of carrying a firearm, it’s how qualified and experienced the individual is and how many extra magazines they can carry.
I’m in!
Where to begin? I’ve tried to stay out of this but couldn’t resist. In my chosen profession as a Dental Officer at a US Penitentiary, I have had the experience of working on bank robbers, pedophiles, rapists, murderers, drug dealers and drug lords, assassins for drug cartels, pirates, and yes Islamic terrorists. I try to treat each and every one of them with the same demeanor that I treated patients in my 34 year private practice. I do this both as a professional and as a Christian. Is it hard sometimes? YOU BET ! I also am licensed to carry in all 50 states. Obviously I can’t carry at work or even on the property but I have the right to defend myself and my co-workers with whatever I can pick up and use in an attack situation. And I believe it is my right and also my duty to do so. Turning the other cheek will not get you a good outcome in this place. It was quoted earlier on here ” Don’t be defeated by terrorists by becoming like them.” Sorry but I don’t see how defending yourself from a terrorist makes you become like them. To kill because Mohammed tells you that if you do will get you 70 virgins in paradise is not the same as killing to defend your family or others. I can only hope and pray that if I am ever in a situation where one of these demented camel jockeys tries to invade that I have a lot of concealed carry helpers and not look around and see everyone else turning their other cheeks.
It is a hard reality, but it is where we find ourselves today!
Hi Bill,
I’ll keep it short. The Bible says the thief comes for to steel and to kill.
Also I think you’re already know, the only thing that stops a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.
I agree, and I pray I never have to pull the trigger, but I feel certain that if I had to, I can, and will!
Bill –
As Christians, we should certainly love one another, and this includes those who would do harm to us. On the other hand, I have to believe that we have an obligation to protect our family and ourselves from evil people who would do us harm. This may be difficult to understand, but I guess we hate the evil and still love the person.
Somehow, I’d believe those people in the Paris theater would have welcomed some assistance from an armed civilian. Yet they, like those in the Denver theater shooting, were in a gun free zone. What better target.
I’ve had a Concealed Carry Permit for years, and have received the training which everyone who considers carrying a gun should receive and renew frequently. While we should walk, talk or run away from trouble, if possible, we would certainly be remiss not to protect our family and ourselves if we are placed in a situation with no other option.
Thanks for your insight.
I think what hurts me personally, as I agree with you completely, is that some have such viseral hate for guns. No gun ever shot anyone, a human had to deliberately or carelessly choose to use a gun in a way that harmed another. The last thing I would ever want to do is kill another human being! However, I could not stand by without taking some action and watch someone take an innocent persons life. I desperately want the lost to find Jesus, but it is beyond my understanding to think anyone who does not adopt my faith must be eradicated! It’s just sick!!!!
Thank you all for your insights. They have prompted me to do much reading on several topics … Crimes stopped by concealed permit carriers, crimes committed by concealed weapon carriers, profiles of mass killers, etc.
A few points I picked up.
– it is important to not only read the articLes but to examine the bias of the authors.
– there are many interesting studies supporting many conflicting viewpoints.
– it is said “know your enemy” – it is clear that my enemy is not the same as yours (American). We live in a very different demographic.
– for both you and me it seems highly unlikely that our enemy will be a terrorist of any kind. You need to do your own research to figure out who is most likely to be the person wanting to do you harm.
Don’t need to do much research!!! A little while back I had a very rare thing happen, and I never wrote about, but it opened my eyes to what is coming! A person with which I was having a heated discussion about this subject, finally lost it and said, ” We will never have world peace until we rid the world of Christians, Jews, and NRA members!$@?!#%,”. Yes, they really said that! The far, far, left has an agenda, and I’m not an important part of it!
Would I be out of bounds if I asked if the person in question was a Vegan, card carrying member of PETA?
🙂
No, not that person. Just some one whose values and beliefs are polar opposite of ours (yours and mine)! Homer, I’m proud to say, is my brother (fraternal) & brother (spirituall)!
I didn’t really have anyone in particular in mind. Just a generic type. 😉
Bill, I read an article just yesterday that some school teachers in Ohio, those who are comfortable and willing to do so, are being trained and certified not only to carry a concealed weapon at school but how to defend themselves physically. It’s a program that was developed after Sandy Hook.
Glad to see that, I bet the instance in those schools will be lower!
Bill , you are a lovely gracious man, and I follow ur blog with interest. But I cannot square your thoughts with those of YOUR LORD, what did he say again? LOVE your enemies? do not repay evil with evil? those who live by the sword etc rtc YOU know the rest……Do you really think the prince Of Peace would suggest YOU pull the trigger on anyone else? Did HE seek revenge? or forgiveness and compassion on his foes? Bill Think again.
Billy,
I know you are right, and that is all scriptural, however if someone was about to pull the trigger on you, I’m willing to chance it, and pull mine first. That doesn’t square it, but you would live another day! I try my best to live those principles every waking hour, but I couldn’t stand buy while the evil murder the innocent! Let me offer a thought, if we surrender and say to these radicals, “I will not resist, if you are going to kill me, I will submit!” My guess is they would slaughter every single one of us! There are no easy answers, to that I admit!
Very thought provoking and important topic…but I don’t believe Billy is 100% right. I do not believe 100% passivity is scriptural.
I don’t believe getting slapped on the cheek is the same as deadly force.
I don’t believe loving my enemy is equivalent to total submission to him/her.
I don’t believe repaying evil (or revenge) is the same as self defense.
I don’t believe living by the sword is the same as carrying one for self defense (Jesus told the disciples to be sure to have a few swords for their evening walk – even though Peter miss used it in that case)
I believe God has asked people to “pull the trigger” – Jesus Christ the same yesterday today and forever – the Old Testament has examples of God using the armies of Israel. I also don’t believe capital punishment has been abandoned in the New Testament.
I can forgive and be compassionate without total submission to evil intents of my enemies.
These are just a few of my conclusions after study and prayer on my part…i have been wrong before so will keep an open mind. No insult/argument intended.
Pretty strong arguments to me, thanks for sharing them.
Bill, I wholeheartedly agree with you. However, I don’t think it will solve the problem. We don’t have a gun problem, we have an ‘EVIL’ problem. I believe the only solution to solving the ‘EVIL’ problem is the rapture!
That will certainly solve it for us!!!!!!
Bill
I agree with you whole heartedly. Is not the love for my fellow man more righteous, than sacrificing myself or others, to an evil jihadist, Satan, Son of Perdition, or Rulers of the Darkness, or whatever terms you would like to use? I would rather die in defense of God’s love and his children than to be sacrificed by the hate of Satan.
I too have carried for many years, 24/7 ever since the laws where changed. I believe that all able minded adults, who are willing and capable to safely defend themselves and others, to do so. Yes, guns are dangerous in the hands of man. Without a man they are nothing more than a physical object, just like a doorknob, and that is the whole point. It is the person that is using the gun, sword, knife, club or bludgeon, and their intentions, which can either be righteous or evil.
I am not a big fan of just getting a permit, although when the chips are down, I would rather have an un-trained good guy by my side than standing alone. Those of us who do carry, we owe it to others to take classes in the practice of carrying and using a firearm for self-defense. I believe that the class to get your permit , is only a primer, at best. I also believe that every able minded adult has the right to avail themselves to firearms if they so choose. I feel that those who wish not to avail themselves to this right, have no standing, (they have opted out) on what others may choose to do.
I find it amusing that in England, where they have taken the right to firearms from the people, there is now a movement called, “Save a Life, Ban the Knife”. Those involved want to ban all pointed things.
Thank God they have not banned my pen.
It is not the knife; it is the man holding it that matters!!!
Bill your thoughts mirror my own. I was anti-gun until the recent terror attacks, but I have changed my mind on this issue. Now I am thinking of getting a concealed carry permit just for the ability to be able to fight back and depend myself and my family. The recent shootings at Planned Parenthood reinforces those feelings.
With your permission I’d like to re-post your post on my facebook page.